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Subject: Forgiveness of Sins
Replies: 40 Views: 3170
salam05 21.01.09 - 02:31pm
upon those who follow the guidance....
This is specially for those xtians who r creatin a fuss here... E.g. Levifex.
We know from christian's aka Paulian's teachin that the blood is the only way 4 forgiveness of one's sins. thats why, accordin to them, Jesus Christ PBUH nailed on the cross for the sins of humankind. There is no other way for the forgiveness of ur sin. And, they claim, Old Testament teaches that. And whole concept of trinity is based on this.
But let me ask, where does the laws says that? Infact we find that Bible teaches opposit. Bible (except Epistles) does teach about sacrificin, and so Islam teaches, but none teaches that its the ONLY way for the forgiveness of ur sins. God doesn't required Blood, to 4give ur sins. I'll give few examples from the Bible to prove my points. *
salam05 21.01.09 - 02:33pm
Psalm 40:6 ''Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire, mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required.''
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1Samuel 15:22 ''And Samuel said, Hath the LORD [as great] delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey [is] better than sacrifice, [and] to hearken than the fat of rams.''
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Hosea 14:1 ''O Israel, return unto the LORD thy God; for thou hast fallen by thine iniquity. [2] Take with you words, and turn to LORD: Say unto him, take away all iniquity, and recieve [us] graciously: so will we render the calves of our lips.''
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*
salam05 21.01.09 - 02:38pm
But there are few christians who'll qoute, in reply, the following verse...
Leviticus 17:11 ''For the life of the flesh [is] in the blood and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement from your souls: For it [is] the blood [that] maketh an atonement for the soul.''
Let me ask, where does it say that the blood is the only source for the forgiveness of ur sin? On the other hand there are many verses in Bible which speaks clearly, how can ur sins be forgiven.. For example,
Psalm 51:16 ''For thou desirest not sacrifice else would I give [it]: thou delightest not in burnt offering. [17] The sacrifice of God [are] a broken spirit: a broken and contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.''
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Psalm 69:30 ''I will praise the name of God with a song, and will magnify him with thanksgiving [31] (this) also shall please the LORD better than an ox [or] bullock that hath horns and hoofs.''[/i]
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Micah 7:18 [i]''who is a God like unto Thee, that pardoneth iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? He retained not His anger for ever, because he delighteth in... [19] He will turn again, he will have compassion upon us, he will subdue our iniquities; and thou wilt cast all their sins into the depths of the sea. [20] Thou wilt perform the truth of Jacob, and the mercy to Abraham which thou hast sworn unto our fathers from the days of old.''[/i]
Its clear from the above verse, that there's a large difference between the teachings of Paul n true Old Testament's teaching... Let me see Hw the Levifix guy reply this... *
mishy_23 22.01.09 - 04:59am
Well done! *
pakibabe 23.01.09 - 03:47pm
Well said brother! *
levafix 28.01.09 - 11:14pm
Jesus was the sacrifice...as easy as that! But he was so perfect that he paid the price forever! *
levafix 28.01.09 - 11:18pm
So to have our sins forgiven we simply confess with our lips and if we truly sorry for the sins we committed we are forgiven *
mishy_23 29.01.09 - 04:35am
In islam if we repent sincerely to our Lord, He forgives us. So u mean dat if a christion does a crime nd dosnt confess den he'll be in hell? *
levafix 29.01.09 - 12:43pm
Yes for the sin is still against him *
mishy_23 29.01.09 - 12:45pm
den y did Jesus pbuh die?? *
salam05 29.01.09 - 03:59pm
The whole theory of christianity is based on assumption... Anyway this guy levafix seems very ignorant about his own religious scriptures... I kno many christians on prodigits whom r knowledgeable and i've debated wid dem many time... But this guy seems lyk a primary school student jump to teach the students of post graduation..lol. *
mahdhura 31.01.09 - 05:45am
Doznt it also stated dat no bearers of burden shall bear anothers load nor d father shal sufer 4 d eniquity of the son n vice virsa. Cn sumbody pls help wit d number of d vrs jazakALLAH *
maxfc 31.01.09 - 05:49am
Lol..exactly! Rightly said bro salam. I dont even knw y we r wasting our precious time here. *
levafix 31.01.09 - 06:50am
Mishy Jesus died for us. So our sins can be forgiven and we can receive salvation, and that death can have no power over those who are saved. Jesus is our intercessor between us and God, like Moses was the intercessor between Israel, and God.He came to bring us the gospel and to show us how to live! *
mishy_23 1.02.09 - 02:32am
why did Jesus hav to die wen u can just repent nd 'confess' ur sins to b 4given?? Itz just ridiculous. God dosnt need to kill His 'son' 2 4give us!! *
levafix 1.02.09 - 09:58am
There can be no remission of sins without the shedding of blood. In the old testiment times people sacrificed animals for their sins to be forgiven, these animals were without blemishes. *
maxfc 2.02.09 - 12:28am
OMG!! Christianity is so barbaric!!! Dont mind bt i dint knw in christianity blood needs to b shed 4 da sins!! OMG! Itz so dangerous nd inhuman!! *
salam05 2.02.09 - 01:22am
Saari Ram kahani khatam ho gayi, phir bhi ye keh rahe hai ''Raam lakshman ka father tha.lol
Leva, ur shoutin the same thing which i've already explained n u dint answer that yet...
If God can forgive the huge sins of Israel, during babylon, just bcz of repentance (no sacrifice). So why can't He forgive the sins without blood now.... Or Jesus PBUH came to abrogate prev laws?? *
maxfc 2.02.09 - 06:04am
Mujhay lagta hai ke iska brain mein seriously dung hai. Ye to kuch bhi nahin samajhta! Bakhwas kahi ke. Anparh ganwar type larka hai. *
levafix 2.02.09 - 06:58pm
God can forgive the sins of people NOW, and he does if its honest, He does this cause Jesus died THEN! *
maxfc 2.02.09 - 08:52pm
We believe dat God dosnt need to kill any1 to 4give sum1. Datz so simple! *
levafix 7.02.09 - 12:13am
Ok thats what you believe. *
ayyad 7.02.09 - 06:52am
Read frm the start f topic as wat the bible says!read the verses which bro salam has given!arent they frm bible *
levafix 7.02.09 - 11:00am
You know what? The bible can say anything to you as long as you take things out of context! Ive mentioned this countless of time before so thats why i dont even bother defending it *
ayyad 8.02.09 - 08:52pm
Prove to us these verses are out of context!mere sayin it wont solve nything!if u hav betta knowledge abt bible show us were we r wrong! *
ayyad 8.02.09 - 08:54pm
If sm1 quotes Quran out of context we muslim make every effort to give the context!so give the context fr better understanding *
levafix 9.02.09 - 09:21am
Ok lets take psalm 40 vs 6. Its a song of praise and the authr is praising God. He says that God does not want sacrifices for sins because he recieved ears to hear the law of God. But! Because we do sin, and the wages of sin is death, someone has to amke atonement for our sins, and because life is in the blood that was sacrificed to God. *
levafix 9.02.09 - 09:22am
If we did not sin God would not require sin sacrifices for us! He doesnt want us to sin and so doesnt want sin sacrifices! *
ayyad 9.02.09 - 04:02pm
If i agree wid u on that stil fr my sin i wud hav to do sacrifice myself!every bearer of burden has to bear his own burden *
levafix 9.02.09 - 05:31pm
Not christians! Jesus did that for us! *
ayyad 9.02.09 - 08:51pm
Nt fr christains?arent they servants of one tru God!suerly God has to b most just!it is a person who sin who bears the burden f that sin!the father doesnt bear the iniquity of the son nor does the son of father! *
levafix 9.02.09 - 10:25pm
Ayyad ever hear of generational curses? *
ayyad 10.02.09 - 02:22am
Did adam pbuh ask me before eatin that forbidden fruit? *
levafix 11.02.09 - 11:55am
You out of context! *
684247 11.02.09 - 03:12pm
Giv us d context if u hav it. U dnt knw noffing abt d bible. *
ayyad 12.02.09 - 07:35am
U keep tellin us out f context but give us the context!do u consider urself a true christain? *
levafix 12.02.09 - 10:17pm
Y should i when u repeatedly ignore the context? You apply one thing that has nothing to do with the other! Whar does Adam having to ask you to do with anything? *
ayyad 13.02.09 - 04:34pm
Y didnt the concept of sin according to christains started wid adam pbuh!arent sin nd forgiveness related *
ayyad 13.02.09 - 04:36pm
If u dnt wanna give the context that means u dnt hav the answers!and then wats the use of this discussion then *
levafix 13.02.09 - 08:00pm
What do you mean? I dont understand? Everyone knows it started with Adam so why you still asking? Sin and death go together for the wages of sin is death! *
ayyad 14.02.09 - 07:07pm
Wat i mean is that i heard a pastor argue that the whole mankind has inherited a curse bcoz of the sin adam pbuh commited!so i was just asking u y shud i be held accountable fr that!nd y wud God require sm1 elses death to frgive our sins!if i commit a sin it is i who has to repent!nd nt just say that jesus pbuh has paid fr my sins *
